"THAT'S GOOD–THAT'S BAD" — "FORTUNATELY– |
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"THAT'S GOOD—THAT'S BAD" "FORTUNATELY— UNFORTUNATELY" — - STORY AND SOURCES Scroll down or click on your choice below • SOS: Searching Out Stories and Information Advice, Comments and References from Storytellers, Teachers and Librarians |
SOS: SEARCHING OUT STORIES AND INFORMATION - "THAT'S GOOD - THAT'S BAD" STORY
Advice, Discussion and References from Storytellers, Teachers and Librarians
(excerpts from Storytell posts plus original research)
Book titles and online links are in blue and underlined. Click on them to get more stories and information.
Story titles are in quotation marks.
To retell any stories, get permission from the copyright holder if the material is not in the public domain.
Attributions/entry dates not included prior to 2002. Posts are added chronologically as they are received by Story Lovers World.
1) Majorie Cuyler did a picture book called That's Good! That's Bad! (An Owlet Book)
Ray B. 7/20/02
Others in this series are:
That's Good! That's Bad! in the Grand Canyon
That's Good! That's Bad! In Washington, DC
That's Good! That's Bad! on Santa's Journey
That's Good! That's Bad! Book and Audiocassette Tape Set (Paperback)
2) There's another picture book, That's good, that's bad
3) Jane Yolen's collection of Favorite Folktales from Around the World (Pantheon Fairy Tale and Folklore Library)
Elisa P. 7/20/02
4) There is the Chinese story (there are other variants I believe) called "The Lost Horse." This is the story in which the man's horse runs away and his neighbors console him, but he says, "What makes you so sure it isn't a blessing?" Then the horse returns with a stallion by its side and the neighbors congratulate him. He says, "What makes you so sure that it isn't disaster?" Then the man's son rides the stallion and breaks his hip. So again the neighbors console him and again he says, "What makes you so sure that it isn't a blessing?" Then a year later an army of nomads came across the border and every able-bodied man was called into service. The Chinese lost 9 out of 10 men. Because the son was still recovering from his broken hip he was not called to war, and so the father and son survived to care for each other. This is found in Jane Yolen's Favorite Folktales from Around the World (Pantheon Fairy Tale and Folklore Library).
5) There is a version from India in which the King has a loyal advisor who has an annoying habit of responding to each event by saying "That is Good". He says this when the king loses his toe in a hunting accident. The king fires him from his job. Some months later the king is captured by a group of tribesmen who plan to use him in a sacrificial ceremony. On discovering that his toe is gone, they declare him unfit as he has "already been cut." The tribesmen let the King go. Once he is safely back in the palace he calls the advisor to him and reinstates him in his job. "You were right," he said," It was good that I lost my toe for it saved my life today. But why did you say it was good when I fired you from your job?" The advisor answered. "Your Highness, I cannot see the future, but I have learned to trust that some good comes from each event. Today I see what that was for me. For as you recall I was loyal to you, and had you not fired me, I would have remained with you when you were captured by the tribesmen. And because I am in possession of all my fingers and toes, I would have been next in line for the sacrifice!" This was published in a National Storytelling Magazine as a featured story; the source came from a book called, Stories Lives Tell: Narrative and Dialogue in Education, Witherall and Noddings, Eds. (Teachers College Press, Columbia Univ. l991). It is published in the book by Elisa Pearmain: Doorways to the Soul: 52 Wisdom Tales from Around the World
6) Remember the story that goes "That's good and That's bad"? The good news -- I convinced our state library association (ILA) to try a story swap at this year's annual conference. The bad news -- I'm in charge.
7) There's a "That's Good/That's Bad" science FACT-tale in my article in the May/June issue of Storytelling Magazine.
Heather Forest has a version of "A Farmer's Horse Ran Off" in her Wisdom Tales from Around the World (World Storytelling)
Fran S. 7/20/02
8) There was a comedianne who does the telephone, thinks she's talking to her daughter and offers to come over, bake for the PTA meeting, take 2 hours to drive there, take the kids to the doctor, and then asks, "By the way, how did Michael like the movie you went to?" Who? "Michael, your husband." Michael isn't the name of my husband, it's David. Mother: Is this 305-666-6666, Daughter: No this is 305-6667. Mother: Oh, then you're not Iris? Daughter: Noo-ooo this is Patsy-----long pause--------does this mean you're not coming? It gets a big laugh and cute in tandem adding in all the things in your community, getting public transportation, transferring buses to make it a greater hardship, not having the ingredients at home but that's all right, I'll go shopping. I have a pain in my hip or back, but that's all right, I'll take the baby to the doctor.etc.
9) >What category does this fit in?<
I wrote back earlier that I'd found a joke type of story like this - but you asked Ellen what category it might fit in.
I use it with "Lost Horse" - think that was the title in a Jane Yolen collection - but it is essentially where the Father says alternately that something might be good or bad when everyone else think the event is fortunate or unfortunate.
Those two stories are my "set up" to play the Fortunately/Unfortunately Games that Tim Sheppard and Batsy talked about. They are posted below my signature for those interested. (I find they are fun for a mixed age Horse Camp group I do in the summer.)
Ina V.D. 5/20/02
10) "Fortunately, Unfortunately"
Ending in Favorite Folktales from Around the World (Pantheon Fairy Tale and Folklore Library), pg. 408: Truly, blessing turns to disaster, and disaster to blessing; the changes have no end, nor can the mystery be fathomed.
Ods Bodkin ends his (from my memory) as: The wise of China say that hovering over every disaster is a blessing, and lurking under every blessing is a disaster. And no one can tell which is really which.
Kate D. 7/20/02
11) "Fortunately, Unfortunately" — two versions
Here is a version of "Fortunately./Unfortunately" — very much like the one in Jane Yolen's book. It was sent in response to a request for stories about Surprises - the message is that we should have faith and not be fearful.
With it is another story sent in by Elisa Pearmain - "That is good" which is lighter in tone about a king's man who always says, "That is good." When the king loses his thumb, you can all guess what happens to the King's man after he says, "That's good." But it all turns out fine for the king and his man.
I use both of these versions to introduce Tim Shepard's "Unfortunately, Fortunately" game.
Ina V.D. 7/20/02
12) Surprises
Margaret was looking for a short story on how God is full of surprises. What comes to mind first is the Chinese story (there are other variants I believe) called "The Lost Horse." This is the story in which the man's horse runs away and his neighbors console him, but he says, "What makes you so sure it isn't a blessing?" Then the horse returns with a stallion by its side and the neighbors congratulate him. He says, "What makes you so sure that it isn't disaster?" Then the man's son rides the stallion and breaks his hip. So again the neighbors console him and again he says, "What makes you so sure that it isn't a blessing?" Then a year later an army of nomads came across the border and every able bodied man was called into service. The Chinese lost 9 out of 10 men. Because the son was still recovering from his broken hip he was not called to war, and so did father and son survive to care for each other.
This is found in Jane Yolen's Favorite Folktales from Around the World.
Another similar story but with a slightly more positive message, is the version from India in which the King has a loyal advisor who has an annoying habit of responding to each event by saying, "That is Good". He says this when the king looses his toe in a hunting accident. The king fires him from his job. Some months later the king is captured by a group of tribesmen who plan to use him in a sacrificial ceremony. On discovering that his toe is gone they declare him unfit as he has "already been cut." The tribesman let he King go. Once he is safely back in the palace he calls the advisor to him and reinstates him in his job. "You were right," he said," It was good that I lost my toe for it saved my life today. But why did you say it was good when I fired you from your job?"
The advisor answered. "Your highness, I cannot see the future, but I have learned to trust that some good comes from each event. Today I see what that was for me. For as you recall I was loyal to you, and had you not fired me, I would have remained with you when you were captured by the tribesmen. And because I am in possession of all my fingers and toes, I would have been next in line for the sacrifice!"
This was first brought to my attention in a National Storytelling Magazine featured story, the source came from a book called, Stories Lives Tell: Narrative and Dialogue in Education
Elisa P. 1/16/2000
13) "Fortunately, Unfortunately" — two versions
This story can be even more powerful if you tell a personal or historical story immediately after or before the story that has the same theme. This is not an original idea. I heard Heather Forest tell a personal story about her family and then tell the good news/bad news story. It made the story so much more immediate. Even Dr. Lucia's train trip had shades of good and bad. "I got to the station the train was delayed." Bad news. "No, good news. I met a man and we left for awhile and came back." Good news. "No, bad news. The train still didn't arrive." Bad news, "No, good news. We met others stranded like ourselves, and I started to tell stories." Good news. "No, bad there was one lady who wouldn't tell." Bad news. "No, good news. She finally did tell and it was such a good story."
Well, you get the idea.
Marilyn K. 7/20/02
14) There's a "That's Good/That's Bad" science FACT-tale in my article in the May/June issue of Storytelling Magazine. Heather Forest has a version of "A Farmer's Horse Ran Off" in her Wisdom Tales collection. I first heard it from a Chinese-American man who had heard it from his grandmother west of Beijing; he was translating into English as he told it to us.
Fran S. 7/20/02
15) This reminds me of a game I play with my course participants. It always works well, and since I talked at length recently about games without describing many, I'll give the details. There are two versions, "Unfortunately" and "Unfortunately Fortunately." It's important to start any group on the first one, for reasons I'll give later.
The group stands in a circle, and can be anything up to about 20. Note that they can sit, but that always diminishes the energy and liveliness of mind. The game is to tell a story, contributing one sentence each, going round the circle. The story carries on, circulating many times, until the leader interrupts (out of turn, probably) and says The End. The group may sense that the story might have ended, but nobody will want to take responsibility for stopping. Often the story can be improved by carrying on, despite the story-situation seeming finished. The story can easily last for 10 - 15 minutes.
The vital instruction that gives the game its name, is that each person's sentence MUST start with the word Unfortunately. This not only shapes the story, but provides a known beginning to start speaking with. This is a great aid, because it's important that people be told that they must start speaking immediately their preceding neighbour stops and looks towards them - there must be no pondering, hesitating, censoring etc. This is an improvisation game, and the faster and more unthinking, unjudging it goes, the better the creative flow - which necessitates urgent pressure on everyone to be fast. Otherwise everyone wants to agonise over the best and cleverest thing to say. The leader must be cruel to be kind, and keep rushing people to say the first thing that comes into their head, if they hesitate. That's why knowing the first word to say gives each person a start, and momentum to carry on speaking without planning.
One further note, about impro stories in general - try and keep the action here and now. Talking about other times and places tends to sap the energy. However, I've never really had that problem with this particular game.
You may be thinking that this sounds like a very negative game, but remember that necessity is the mother of invention? It only takes a handful of goes before things can't get much worse, but they must - so real ingenuity comes out and it's very exciting. The story tends to be very comic and farcical, not depressing.
Here's an example (the first sentence needn't start with the word, since nothing has happened yet):
John was renewing his library book.
Unfortunately he was at the wrong library.
Unfortunately the librarian screamed at him for being stupid.
Unfortunately everyone in the library looked round at him.
Unfortunately John had a phobia about being looked at.
Unfortunately he grew long hair and teeth and started trying to bite everyone.
Unfortunately for John, everyone built a fortress out of books and hid inside.
Unfortunately he found the back door.
Unfortunately he was also afraid of the dark, and when he got inside he found there was no light.
Unfortunately everyone started hitting him with books.
Unfortunately they started with the Encyclopaedia Brittanica.
Unfortunately the worms had nearly finished eating it, and the volumes burst into clouds of dust.
Unfortunately the worms starting eating all the people.
Unfortunately they found them delicious.
Unfortunately this sent everyone mad.
Unfortunately they swarmed out of the fortress and ate the librarians.
Unfortunately they tasted horrible.
Unfortunately the shop next door had run out of chocolate sauce. etc...
The story is always driven towards the kinds of things people would often steer clear of, given the choice. But this is a vital fact about impro -people avoid monsters of all kinds in real life, and can be very skilled at doing the same in impro stories. But consider going to a film in which Godzilla grew up to be a cute friendly chap 2 feet high, who slept all day.... nothing would happen! We secretly love stories to immerse us in all the exciting things that we hope will never really happen to us. The unfortunately game generates these very well, yet each person has to find a way to carry on, so there are always implicit temporary solutions to each disaster. Consider this:
All the people from the library have been eaten by John...
Unfortunately it was very cramped inside John and they were very uncomfortable.
Unfortunately he had had 2 gallons of Pepsi for breakfast.
Unfortunately they all drowned.
Unfortunately Heaven had just filled up and they had to wait outside.
Unfortunately some angels forced them to have harp lessons while they were waiting.
Unfortunately they were all tone deaf.
Unfortunately Paradise wasn't such a nice place to be with a crowd of tone-deaf harpists making a racket outside....
etc..
There is never a situation from which you cannot carry on.
•••••
"Unfortunately Fortunately"
This variation needs greater skill, and is best done by those who have had experience with the previous game.
The game is just the same, but as the turn goes round the circle the first word alternates between Unfortunately, and Fortunately.
The danger is that people will fall into one of the most basic traps in impro - Cancelling. This is where an interesting conflict or situation is introduced, and then people back away from it by simply denying it.
eg:
John was renewing his library book.
Unfortunately he was at the wrong library.
Fortunately the librarian didn't mind.
Unfortunately everyone in the library looked round at him.
Fortunately John didn't notice.
You can see that this kind of story gets very boring. The way to play this game is to make the Fortunately contributions still push the action onwards. People who have played the first version a couple of times can usually sense how this works, especially if the leader points out once that cancelling leads to dead ends, but confronting problems and monsters always works. If you look at the first Unfortunately example above, you'll see that the sentence where the fortress is built is actually a disguised Fortunately, got by switching perspectives.
I prefer the first game, which is always hysterically funny, but the second one, if played well, can be funny and delightful too. Have fun.
Tim S. 1/9/98
http://www.timsheppard.co.uk/story
16) Interesting legend from India.
Unfortunately, I can't take credit for that particular game. That one springs uniquely from the creative genius of Tim S.
Fortunately, I can offer a source still in print: Fortunately
(1993 - Ages 4-8) amazon.com review:
Fortunately, Ned was invited to a surprise party.
Unfortunately, the party was a thousand miles away.Fortunately, a friend loaned Ned an airplane.
Unfortunately, the motor exploded.Fortunately, there was a parachute in the airplane.
Unfortunately, there was a hole in the parachute.What else could go wrong as Ned tries to get to the party? Readers will cheer as Ned's luck turns from good to bad to good again, while clever illustrations tell the story of his wacky adventure and narrow escapes.
I believe that Remy learned the improv game as a member of the Paper Bag Players
http://www.paperbagplayers.org/history.html
a children's theatre group he co-founded in Providence, Rhode Island about 40 years ago. 'Fortunately' was first published in 1964. We have an autographed first edition of the book and permission to tell the story.
Tom F.
Created 2002; last update 10/4/09
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